Comments on: Lessons from Microsoft: Innovation and Competition http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/ The blog that helps you build great software Sun, 20 Jul 2008 01:51:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU By: Kyrylo Yatsenko http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-341 Kyrylo Yatsenko Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:55:40 +0000 http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-341 Great observation. I had similar ideas considering products that microsoft issues since 1984. Great observation. I had similar ideas considering products that microsoft issues since 1984.

]]> By: monkey magic http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-137 monkey magic Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:21:44 +0000 http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-137 The winners are hated again, and the losers are loved. A strange comment you may think, why did everyone love eddie the eagle and frank brunno ?. Everyone needs to look at some facts here, although i am not a member of the microsoft fan club, microsoft put a pc in close to every household in the modern world, if it wasn't for microsoft this website and all us devs may not even exist. Back in the 80's atari st's, amiga's and sinclair ruled the roost, pc's were expensive cumbersome difficult to use monsters that nobody apart from universities wanted. Microsoft had the vision to change all that, and they did an amazing job, no one can dispute that. However as with all profit making bussiness's the name of the game is to eliminate competitors and create a monopoly, they have done quite well their as well. You can bitch all you like but microsoft are on top of the game because they had the vision and conviction to make pc's available and usefull to the masses. As for Apple/mac, owners of such machines are like BMW owners they believe they are a cut above the rest because they own an apple, everything apple do is aimed at the exlusive apple club member which is reflected in the price of their products, I haven't used a mac so can't really comment on their useability, but if i want a laptop and i can bye a windows based item for £400 or an apple for £2500 that will basically do the same job what am i to do. Apple corporation are aiming their products at the higher end market, and at their prices they will never get a huge market share, apple know this and are quite content with been the BMW of the computer world. As for linux i've never used that either, why you may ask ?, Well I have a full time job and i don't have time on my hands to mess around with linux for hours and hours just to send an email. Like i said i've not used it so i can't really comment, it may be quite simple to send an email, but linux is aimed at the comitted geek (which is what i am to a degree) and if linux want to get any kind of home pc market share they need to create an operating system that a thicko can use. You wouldn't bye a car if you had to have a phd to be able to drive it, so how the hell do devs commenting here expect linux to be in every house when you need to be a wizz just to install the damn thing. Back in the 80's thats what you had to do with pc's you had to use dos commands to do anything "thats why nodody brought pc's cus no bugger new how to use them". If linux want to be a household name they need produce an os that anyone can use not just us geeks (which incidently is exactly what microsoft did). I totally agree that microsoft are like a computer black hole now sucking up all the competition, but the competition need to wise up if they want to compete with the big boys. The fact that microsoft are not inovating is very valid you would think with their resources that they would be producing the most inovative software available but i guess if your on the top spot why bother to risk billions on inovation when your generating $16B a year profit off run of the mill software. Its up to the other big players to inovate and shake microsofts foundations and no one is prepared to do that. Linux is obviously a profitable company but if they want to be a household name they should produce a household OS make it free of charge (until they have a considerable market share at least) and compatible with everything. Microsoft are a huge company due to their inovation years ago, you can't knock them for trying to create a monopoly, its up to everyone else to change that. So apple and linux lovers, stop moaning and do something about it (I know its easier said than done though). The winners are hated again, and the losers are loved.
A strange comment you may think, why did everyone love eddie the eagle and frank brunno ?. Everyone needs to look at some facts here, although i am not a member of the microsoft fan club, microsoft put a pc in close to every household in the modern world, if it wasn’t for microsoft this website and all us devs may not even exist. Back in the 80’s atari st’s, amiga’s and sinclair ruled the roost, pc’s were expensive cumbersome difficult to use monsters that nobody apart from universities wanted. Microsoft had the vision to change all that, and they did an amazing job, no one can dispute that. However as with all profit making bussiness’s the name of the game is to eliminate competitors and create a monopoly, they have done quite well their as well. You can bitch all you like but microsoft are on top of the game because they had the vision and conviction to make pc’s available and usefull to the masses.
As for Apple/mac, owners of such machines are like BMW owners they believe they are a cut above the rest because they own an apple, everything apple do is aimed at the exlusive apple club member which is reflected in the price of their products, I haven’t used a mac so can’t really comment on their useability, but if i want a laptop and i can bye a windows based item for £400 or an apple for £2500 that will basically do the same job what am i to do. Apple corporation are aiming their products at the higher end market, and at their prices they will never get a huge market share, apple know this and are quite content with been the BMW of the computer world.
As for linux i’ve never used that either, why you may ask ?, Well I have a full time job and i don’t have time on my hands to mess around with linux for hours and hours just to send an email. Like i said i’ve not used it so i can’t really comment, it may be quite simple to send an email, but linux is aimed at the comitted geek (which is what i am to a degree) and if linux want to get any kind of home pc market share they need to create an operating system that a thicko can use. You wouldn’t bye a car if you had to have a phd to be able to drive it, so how the hell do devs commenting here expect linux to be in every house when you need to be a wizz just to install the damn thing. Back in the 80’s thats what you had to do with pc’s you had to use dos commands to do anything “thats why nodody brought pc’s cus no bugger new how to use them”. If linux want to be a household name they need produce an os that anyone can use not just us geeks (which incidently is exactly what microsoft did).
I totally agree that microsoft are like a computer black hole now sucking up all the competition, but the competition need to wise up if they want to compete with the big boys.
The fact that microsoft are not inovating is very valid you would think with their resources that they would be producing the most inovative software available but i guess if your on the top spot why bother to risk billions on inovation when your generating $16B a year profit off run of the mill software. Its up to the other big players to inovate and shake microsofts foundations and no one is prepared to do that.
Linux is obviously a profitable company but if they want to be a household name they should produce a household OS make it free of charge (until they have a considerable market share at least) and compatible with everything.
Microsoft are a huge company due to their inovation years ago, you can’t knock them for trying to create a monopoly, its up to everyone else to change that.
So apple and linux lovers, stop moaning and do something about it (I know its easier said than done though).

]]> By: Roaming in the .NET World » Blog Archive » A week of Ubuntu http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-133 Roaming in the .NET World » Blog Archive » A week of Ubuntu Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:01:47 +0000 http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-133 [...] found some interesting comments on Linux. Here is the original post from Hamid Shojaee, founder of OnTime, and please pay attention to the comments made by Phillip Blanton (comment #7 and [...] [...] found some interesting comments on Linux. Here is the original post from Hamid Shojaee, founder of OnTime, and please pay attention to the comments made by Phillip Blanton (comment #7 and [...]

]]> By: Phillip Blanton http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-115 Phillip Blanton Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:18:42 +0000 http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-115 Oh, and I agree with you that OSX is a much better platform upon which to build business software. Unfortunately the business world just isn't adopting it. Maybe it will. Microsoft has lost the API war and only stnads to get weaker from here on out. However, with billions in the bank, they can do a whole lot wrong for a looooong time before they can be considered over. The new frontier is disconnected systems (read web-based software). Web-based software doesn't tie the user to any particular client. If you like Linux, then use Linux. Same with Mac. Over time I expect Microsoft to lose much of its dominance over the industry, but I never expect it to go away. In the meantime, most businesses are tied to Microsoft and fat-client software and that won't change for a long time. This is a fun thread by the way... Oh, and I agree with you that OSX is a much better platform upon which to build business software. Unfortunately the business world just isn’t adopting it. Maybe it will.

Microsoft has lost the API war and only stnads to get weaker from here on out. However, with billions in the bank, they can do a whole lot wrong for a looooong time before they can be considered over.

The new frontier is disconnected systems (read web-based software). Web-based software doesn’t tie the user to any particular client. If you like Linux, then use Linux. Same with Mac. Over time I expect Microsoft to lose much of its dominance over the industry, but I never expect it to go away.

In the meantime, most businesses are tied to Microsoft and fat-client software and that won’t change for a long time.

This is a fun thread by the way…

]]> By: Phillip Blanton http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-114 Phillip Blanton Fri, 11 Jan 2008 01:35:14 +0000 http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-114 Jonathan D'haene Said: "I do my business stuff and personal stuff faster on a 3 year old Mac than on a new PC with XP or Vista. What you say is not correct. Use a Mac first, before saying such things." Jonathan, I am sorry. I was unaware of the speed at which your Mac runs your business apps when I made my thoughtless comments. Please convey my apologies to your computer. But then again, how would I know. It is totally anecdotal evidence from a single person. Hardly valid evidence that the Apple Mac is a veritable "Mac Daddy" in the business world. I have a Mac Jonathan. I bought a Mac Mini last year to just see what they were like. I have a "U" shaped desk and the mac sits behind me and plays internet radio all day. One of my close friends uses a Macbook Pro for his daily work. However, since he is a .NET developer, he runs XP using Parallels 90% of the time. He uses the MacOS for email, web-browsing, and to run Parallels. I also run my development environment (XP Pro) using a virtual machine, but mine runs on an Ubuntu Linux host. I also mostly run the XP VM and use the host for email, web, and to run VMWare. Until the Mac has at least double-digit market penetration, don't talk to me about how the Mac is accepted in the business world. I'm sure you love your mac - I like mine, even though I don't get real work done with it - and I'm sure you are a nice guy. Heck, you're a regular pistol! You keep good company too. Rush Limbaugh is a big Mac guy (he he he. not a "big mac" guy, I should say Apple Macintosh Enthusiast, but he may be a "big mac" guy too.) and he uses his macs for business, just like you. Since he is the number one rated talk radio host, I guess we could use that as anecdotal evidence that Macintosh computers make you rich and famous! My point is though, that a single-digit market share indicates virtually *NO* business adoption. I am a consultant and am in lots of different businesses. I am always surprised when I run across a Mac. I usually see them in the marketing department and very rarely on a secretaries desk. I once saw an engineer with one, but it was on a shelf with two Sparc's and a HPUX machine and shared a monitor, keyboard and mouse with them all, through a KVM switch. It was used for testing purposes. Now, I am not a religious person when it comes to operating systems. But I realize that talking about the strengths and weaknesses of operating systems openly will always chafe the uber-sensitive, so let me reassure you Jonathan; I didn't mean to offend your delicate sensibilities when I callously said that the Apple Macintosh isn't widely accepted as a business computer. While the facts bear me out, it was a mean thing for me to say. Give your mac a hug from me and tell him I didn't mean it. Jonathan D’haene Said:
“I do my business stuff and personal stuff faster on a 3 year old Mac than on a new PC with XP or Vista.
What you say is not correct. Use a Mac first, before saying such things.”

Jonathan, I am sorry. I was unaware of the speed at which your Mac runs your business apps when I made my thoughtless comments. Please convey my apologies to your computer.

But then again, how would I know. It is totally anecdotal evidence from a single person. Hardly valid evidence that the Apple Mac is a veritable “Mac Daddy” in the business world.

I have a Mac Jonathan. I bought a Mac Mini last year to just see what they were like. I have a “U” shaped desk and the mac sits behind me and plays internet radio all day.

One of my close friends uses a Macbook Pro for his daily work. However, since he is a .NET developer, he runs XP using Parallels 90% of the time. He uses the MacOS for email, web-browsing, and to run Parallels. I also run my development environment (XP Pro) using a virtual machine, but mine runs on an Ubuntu Linux host. I also mostly run the XP VM and use the host for email, web, and to run VMWare.

Until the Mac has at least double-digit market penetration, don’t talk to me about how the Mac is accepted in the business world. I’m sure you love your mac - I like mine, even though I don’t get real work done with it - and I’m sure you are a nice guy. Heck, you’re a regular pistol! You keep good company too. Rush Limbaugh is a big Mac guy (he he he. not a “big mac” guy, I should say Apple Macintosh Enthusiast, but he may be a “big mac” guy too.) and he uses his macs for business, just like you. Since he is the number one rated talk radio host, I guess we could use that as anecdotal evidence that Macintosh computers make you rich and famous!

My point is though, that a single-digit market share indicates virtually *NO* business adoption. I am a consultant and am in lots of different businesses. I am always surprised when I run across a Mac. I usually see them in the marketing department and very rarely on a secretaries desk. I once saw an engineer with one, but it was on a shelf with two Sparc’s and a HPUX machine and shared a monitor, keyboard and mouse with them all, through a KVM switch. It was used for testing purposes.

Now, I am not a religious person when it comes to operating systems. But I realize that talking about the strengths and weaknesses of operating systems openly will always chafe the uber-sensitive, so let me reassure you Jonathan; I didn’t mean to offend your delicate sensibilities when I callously said that the Apple Macintosh isn’t widely accepted as a business computer. While the facts bear me out, it was a mean thing for me to say. Give your mac a hug from me and tell him I didn’t mean it.

]]> By: Keyvan Nayyeri http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-110 Keyvan Nayyeri Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:42:29 +0000 http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-110 Just want to say that I wrote <a href="http://nayyeri.net/blog/competition-vs-innovation-at-microsoft/" title="Graffiti doesn't support Trackbacks!" rel="nofollow">my comments</a> on my blog. Just want to say that I wrote my comments on my blog.

]]> By: Jonathan D'haene http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-107 Jonathan D'haene Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:54:44 +0000 http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-107 -Phillip Blanton Better! I can do MORE an a mac than you on your PC :-p Windows is just one of the tirth-party programs in the iWorld :-) But this thread is not a mac vs pc thing. I'm just happy to see that Hamid Shojaee is recognizing the effort of Apple, Google, Mozilla, etc... and posting it. As I recognized that innovation driven mentality within the OnTime product team long ago. Resulting to yet another customer for them. Only Mircrosoft is stubborn or not getting it, but that's not my problem! Hihi -Phillip Blanton

Better! I can do MORE an a mac than you on your PC :-p
Windows is just one of the tirth-party programs in the iWorld :-)
But this thread is not a mac vs pc thing.

I’m just happy to see that Hamid Shojaee is recognizing the effort of Apple, Google, Mozilla, etc… and posting it.
As I recognized that innovation driven mentality within the OnTime product team long ago. Resulting to yet another customer for them.

Only Mircrosoft is stubborn or not getting it, but that’s not my problem! Hihi

]]> By: Jonathan D'haene http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-105 Jonathan D'haene Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:37:24 +0000 http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-105 "Until Apple or Linux can be less of a mission statement and more of a tool to help regular people get stuff done, they will continue to be boutique’esque, geek lifestyle accoutrements." I do my business stuff and personal stuff faster on a 3 year old Mac than on a new PC with XP or Vista. What you say is not correct. Use a Mac first, before saying such things. “Until Apple or Linux can be less of a mission statement and more of a tool to help regular people get stuff done, they will continue to be boutique’esque, geek lifestyle accoutrements.”

I do my business stuff and personal stuff faster on a 3 year old Mac than on a new PC with XP or Vista.
What you say is not correct. Use a Mac first, before saying such things.

]]> By: Jonathan D'haene http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-104 Jonathan D'haene Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:30:52 +0000 http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-104 Hey! I like this post! Myself, I've worked for a company that was filled with conservative programmers. They even didn't use the basic power of .NET, creating their own approach, leading to slow and buggy software. While I tried to make them use the latest technologies and think out of the box, my mission only succeeded after leaving the company. Suddenly they sag my goal, i guess. Hell, I even had to prove several times that OnTime was a great piece of software!!!! :s:s:s At that time, while using .NET to create software, I was fully influenced by the way Apple software work and looks like. And I still am ;-) The end-users, at first, where surprised that then where provided with screens without buttons. Which was my way to test how they would like their software. After only 2 times explaining, they never had questions anymore. A big contrast with the "default" way of making Windows software. I innovated the way information was shown and how it was captured. Getting great feedback, I kept on making it this way, but still tried to innovate. Yes, sometimes it failed, but at the end, I had created great software. One of my projects was written the way the conservative programmers had made me to. It was slow, end-users didn't remember how it worked every first day after the weekend. And lots of bugs. My message is, don't invent things that are already at hand! In my personal life, I played with Linux as a student. I loved it! My very slow Windows XP PC became super fast running Ubuntu or Gentoo or Knoppix or even Solaris 10 with the java GUI ;-) This made me realize something, Microsoft is filled with conservative programmers. Creating theoreticaly correct software, but forget the most important about software: software is created to help or even replace humans. I found Microsoft failed on that first part. After my first year of working, I was so tired of my personal PC and bought a MacBook, first version. That MacBook is today, running Leopard, even faster than a newly bought HP laptop running just XP. And the components of my MacBook are nothing compared to those in the HP laptop. I love my Mac, I love Apple, Leopard problems where fixed FAST and I never had any problems with Leopard. Another thing, OS X is way better than XP to be a platform for large companies as for small ones. After evaluating COCOA I know now that you can create business software, better, faster, safer than on Windows. Really, if I start a business, it will be ALL APPLE. I bed that Pages is better that Word, Numbers is better than Excel. Keynote is just better than PowerPoint, that's just like saying the earth is round. "You can do more with Word and Excel!!!", yes, but how many employees know that, or know how? And if they have had lessons, how many do remember, how many use that knowledge, how many of all just keeps on getting angry while using Office? :-) Innovation, compatibility, integration level and intuitive - responsive interfaces. My day to day job is making software in .NET for the largest companies in Europe. I've made 5 persons switch to Mac, and they are spreading the word around. Working software is not enough. It must be workable. Jonathan. p.s.: buy a Mac, at the end, you will like it. I promise ;-) Hey!
I like this post!

Myself, I’ve worked for a company that was filled with conservative programmers. They even didn’t use the basic power of .NET, creating their own approach, leading to slow and buggy software. While I tried to make them use the latest technologies and think out of the box, my mission only succeeded after leaving the company. Suddenly they sag my goal, i guess. Hell, I even had to prove several times that OnTime was a great piece of software!!!! :s:s:s

At that time, while using .NET to create software, I was fully influenced by the way Apple software work and looks like. And I still am ;-)
The end-users, at first, where surprised that then where provided with screens without buttons. Which was my way to test how they would like their software. After only 2 times explaining, they never had questions anymore. A big contrast with the “default” way of making Windows software.

I innovated the way information was shown and how it was captured.
Getting great feedback, I kept on making it this way, but still tried to innovate. Yes, sometimes it failed, but at the end, I had created great software.
One of my projects was written the way the conservative programmers had made me to. It was slow, end-users didn’t remember how it worked every first day after the weekend. And lots of bugs.

My message is, don’t invent things that are already at hand!

In my personal life, I played with Linux as a student. I loved it! My very slow Windows XP PC became super fast running Ubuntu or Gentoo or Knoppix or even Solaris 10 with the java GUI ;-)
This made me realize something, Microsoft is filled with conservative programmers. Creating theoreticaly correct software, but forget the most important about software: software is created to help or even replace humans. I found Microsoft failed on that first part.
After my first year of working, I was so tired of my personal PC and bought a MacBook, first version.
That MacBook is today, running Leopard, even faster than a newly bought HP laptop running just XP.
And the components of my MacBook are nothing compared to those in the HP laptop.
I love my Mac, I love Apple, Leopard problems where fixed FAST and I never had any problems with Leopard.

Another thing, OS X is way better than XP to be a platform for large companies as for small ones.
After evaluating COCOA I know now that you can create business software, better, faster, safer than on Windows.
Really, if I start a business, it will be ALL APPLE.
I bed that Pages is better that Word, Numbers is better than Excel. Keynote is just better than PowerPoint, that’s just like saying the earth is round.
“You can do more with Word and Excel!!!”, yes, but how many employees know that, or know how? And if they have had lessons, how many do remember, how many use that knowledge, how many of all just keeps on getting angry while using Office? :-)

Innovation, compatibility, integration level and intuitive - responsive interfaces.

My day to day job is making software in .NET for the largest companies in Europe. I’ve made 5 persons switch to Mac, and they are spreading the word around.

Working software is not enough. It must be workable.

Jonathan.

p.s.: buy a Mac, at the end, you will like it. I promise ;-)

]]> By: Max H. Gano http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-98 Max H. Gano Thu, 10 Jan 2008 03:55:57 +0000 http://shipsoftwareontime.com/2008/01/07/lessons-from-microsoft-innovation-and-competition/#comment-98 Just a quick extension of Phillip's comment on the need for Linux as a community to overcome the installation problem. Excellent point. My experience with Linux mirrors his. And it is a major pain. But suddenly I found myself wondering, why hasn't the open source community focused on THAT particular problem. Maybe one group (or more) could become a service to all the other groups who don't want to invest in making their apps easier to install. Is that not sexy enough to attact the community required? God knows, it would be a huge service to all, and possibly one which could tip the balance. Just a quick extension of Phillip’s comment on the need for Linux as a community to overcome the installation problem. Excellent point. My experience with Linux mirrors his. And it is a major pain. But suddenly I found myself wondering, why hasn’t the open source community focused on THAT particular problem. Maybe one group (or more) could become a service to all the other groups who don’t want to invest in making their apps easier to install. Is that not sexy enough to attact the community required? God knows, it would be a huge service to all, and possibly one which could tip the balance.

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